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The "souring with grain" thing...


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#1 ER Pemberton

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 03:15 PM

I know I just saw (and read) that where someone makes a starter and then places some amount of "raw" 2-row in there because it's got a lot of lacto on it. What exactly would that do and what would a brewer who normally makes straight-down-the-middle type beers do with that information? Is there yeast in that starter or just the grain? Do you let that starter go for some amount of time and then pitch it with whatever yeast you want to use to make a "sour" beer or are you going to get a "funky" beer? All this time making sure my unused grains are nowhere near my fermenting beer means I have no idea what happens when you intentionally get them together.

#2 drez77

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:18 PM

You would use that technique for a beer that is just sour like a Berliner Weisse.
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#3 ER Pemberton

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 04:51 PM

That's what I would like to try. Would I want to use all different equipment because of the "sour"? What would be the detailed plan for making a beer like that?

#4 djinkc

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Posted 11 October 2017 - 05:51 PM

Never done it but a kettle sour would keep the bugs out of everything.  I think.  

 

Plenty of lacto in grain though.  I have 2 quarts of hot sauce going that I innoculated with some 2-row run through the little Ninja in the kitchen.  I've used it for other things too.  Just not beer.


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#5 Darterboy

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:47 PM

Pitch the sour starter into a wort and let it go 'til it's as sour as you want, then pitch regular yeast and ferment to completion. I don't worry too much about cross-contamination. Lactobacillus everywhere in a brewery all the time anyway. If you maintain good sanitation and sanitization, you shouldn't have issues.


Edited by Darterboy, 13 October 2017 - 01:47 PM.

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#6 Darterboy

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:50 PM

PSA: Adding the 1/2 tsp 88% lactic acid to pre-acidify the sour starter wort before adding the un-crushed malt is an essential step. Trust me :huh: . 


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#7 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:51 PM

Pitch the sour starter into a wort and let it go 'til it's as sour as you want, then pitch regular yeast and ferment to completion. I don't worry too much about cross-contamination. Lactobacillus everywhere in a brewery all the time anyway. If you maintain good sanitation and sanitization, you shouldn't have issues.

Thanks for this.

I need a little more info though because I have never tried this. What are the steps? Am I using a specific yeast? When is the 'soured' wort added to the beer (after the boil?). I'm really fuzzy on all of this and I also have to admit that it's either been years (or possibly never) that I've sampled a Berliner Weiss. I don't have a recipe or anything but it sounds like something that I would like to try and possibly in a smaller-than-usual batch. Then I would probably have to secure some authentic raspberry syrup too. Darter, do you have the time to give me a general outline?

#8 Darterboy

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 02:14 PM

Everything I'm doing I picked up from Milk the Funk. Particularly HERE:

 

http://www.milkthefu...liner_Weissbier

 

scroll down for recipes and best practices. Great info.

 

and HERE:

 

http://www.milkthefu...acteria_Sources

 

This is where I found the grain starter method I use. There are lots of other sources for lacto.

 

 

 

 

My Raspberry Syrup recipe: https://brews-bros.x...erlinner-weisse.

 

 

It's all really just a matter of making the sour starter and holding it at 110F for 3 days (I use a sous-vide water bath.) Then making the wort, chilling to 110F, pitching the sour starter and holding that temp as best you can for 1-3 days (depends how sour you want it, I go 3.) Then chilling to 70F and pitching your favorite yeast. I've had good success with German Ale from White Labs. Ferment to completion, keg and carb as normal. If at any time in the process you smell feces, vomit or stinky cheese, you have failed. Start over. Keep the pH below 4.6 and exclude oxygen at all costs until you're ready to pitch your regular yeast. Both are critical to keep from growing nasty-smelling bad bacteria.


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#9 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 02:19 PM

Thanks Darter. Part of that last post made me 1) laugh and 2) concerned about trying this because I'm not really low-O2 in my setup. I will check out those links. Cheers.

#10 Darterboy

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 03:02 PM

Thanks Darter. Part of that last post made me 1) laugh and 2) concerned about trying this because I'm not really low-O2 in my setup. I will check out those links. Cheers.

Topping -off the starter wort with seltzer and using an airlock are both covered in the starter procedure. The only extra steps I take are purging my fermenter with CO2 before running the wort into it out of the kettle, and remembering not to aerate it at that point. Once it's soured and chilled to normal fermentation temps, aerate and proceed as normal.


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